Microscope

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microbio
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:21 am

Microscope

Post by microbio »

Hello. I am interested in a cheap but good microscope. Is there any microscope under 200 euros that is not a toy? Preferably one that is available on Amazon.co.uk but, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to make them.
I was thinking about:

- Apex Practitioner
- Bresser Microscope - 5116200 - Biolux NV 20x-1280x
- Bresser Microscope - 5012000 - Duolux 20x-1280x
- Bresser Microscope - 5101000 - Biorit 20x-1280x

What is the best one? I want a microscope with lots of magnification but with good detail. And are there any significative differences between the three Bressers for a microscope newbie? They allow me to see the same, right? Thanks.

g4lab
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Post by g4lab »

If you are in the UK contact Brunel microscopes. They can sell you inexpensive microscopes at competitive prices and they actually know what they are doing.

http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/

microbio
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Post by microbio »

Thank you for the answer but I am not in the UK. I prefer to buy from Amazon UK because the shipping is free to my country, otherwise the cost would be prohibitive. From the microscopes available there, don't you recommend any one?

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

It is just about impossible to recommend something like this that you have never seen or used.

Looking at the characteristics and features microscopes you mention here (as best can be done from the description and a quick search or two), the Apex looks the best "on paper". It is supposed to have coaxial fine and coarse focus, while the others appear to have a single degree of focus. It also supposedly has an Abbe condenser (focus-able and with an aperture) which should prove superior to the others that appear to show a only a rotating aperture disk. (There are also a significant number of very positive user reviews for the Apex which is a good sign.)

Optically... who knows? They all come with a 4X 10X and 40x. In this price range they would be very basic achromats. (They are all probably made in China... or perhaps India). I would expect pretty decent viewing, certainly well above a "toy" level.
Last edited by Charles Krebs on Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gary W Brown
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Post by Gary W Brown »

I have seen these microscopes, often under different brands, and believe there are many better choices for an inexpensive elementary microscope. They are mostly plastic in their focusing mechanisms and not very precise. There just aren't many good things to say. However, the question remains.
Is any microscope better than no microscope ?

Gary
A pixel is worth a thousand words but it takes a thousand words to explain a pixel.

microbio
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:21 am

Post by microbio »

@Charles Krebs: Thanks.

@Gary W Brown: Do you have any suggestion for an inexpensive elementary microscope? It does not need to be from Amazon.

Also, just for curiosity, what's the cheapest good microscope that money can buy (it can be more than 200 euros)?

NikonUser
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Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

Post by NikonUser »

Before my current, expensive, Olympus BH2-BHS I bought a used Parco microscope on e-bay. I believe it was actually a Meiji scope (re-named). Optics and images were excellent.

I see that Meiji still make microscopes, but I could not see any prices for their new scopes. They do turn up used on e-bay.
My scope just had a binocular head, I wanted a trinocular head for photography so bought a BH2
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

Gary W Brown
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Location: Omaha, NE USA

Post by Gary W Brown »

Hello,

Not knowing where you are or what limitations you face regarding prohibitive shipping it is hard to be specific with a recommendation. It would be much easier if you had a model and photo that we could look at and evaluate individually. Having said that, I will climb onto my soap box and opine for a few lines. On the used market, ebay and others, there are many older microscopes that offer good quality for the cost. Sometimes you have to be ready to do a bit of cleaning and refurbishing but, hey, that's when the fun begins. If you are looking at more recent models be careful about the focusing mechanism... unfortunately, this is something you cannot see. There are student scopes that have separate fine and coarse focus controls and most of the time they are not made of plastic. Of course, not all plastic is bad but when the microscope is selling retail for $100 chances are that not much has been invested in precision fitting. The Parco microscopes of some years ago were rebranded Meijis and Swifts (the US brand) and at that time both were being made in Japan.
Quality was an issue depending upon which model you had. In this case the right model would serve your needs quite well. Not too sophisticated but providing a reasonable image on a stand that was sturdy and well fitted.

Gary
A pixel is worth a thousand words but it takes a thousand words to explain a pixel.

microbio
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Post by microbio »

Thank you all.

Just one more question. What about "Bresser Microscope - 5110000 - Erudit MO 20x-1536x" and "Bresser Microscope - 5102000 - Erudit DLX 20x-1000x"? They are more expensive but they might be better.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

They are more expensive but they might be better.
They might, but then again they might not :smt102

Gary got on his soap box ( :wink: ) and explained what is quite true... better quality for the "buck" can usually be had with older used equipment. I certainly don't disagree. This does involve some knowledge about used scopes and frequently some DIY skills as far as cleaning and possibly even some minor (hopefully) repair work.

I have come across a fair number of people who do not want to get involved with used equipment, they want something new, and at the same time are looking for something quite inexpensive. The inexpensive Chinese scopes made today may not approach the mechanical quality of older used equipment, but they can provide a decent user experience... and are far superior to the inexpensive choices that were available to me as a boy (many... far too many... years ago).

But as I said earlier it is impossible to make a specific recommendation unless one has used the equipment. (There are so many different Chinese and Indian models out there and they are marketed by so many different companies... the permutations are extensive).

What I feel more comfortable doing (if your approach is a new low priced scope) is pointing out a few desirable (or not desirable) features:

For illumination a condenser that can be focused, and has a variable aperture is more desirable than a simple rotating "disk" with various aperture sizes.

"Drop down" co-axial x-y stage controls (like on the Apex and one or two others that you mentioned) will be far more comfortable to use instead of smaller separate controls at the stage level (as in the Bresser Microscope - 5110000 - Erudit).

Co-axial fine and coarse focus will be much nicer than a "single-speed" focus, not so much with the 4X and 10X, but certainly with the 40X.

Don't be swayed too much by the high magnification claims. These are usually reached with higher power eyepieces. In reality (at this level and with these objectives) you will likely not be very satisfied by the view with with eyepieces over 10X ... which means your practical viewing range will not be anything like the 1500X claimed by some of the ads.

And of course, the optics are really what make the viewed image satisfactory or not. I have seen inexpensive Chinese objectives that were quite good, and some that were horrible. I would not even try to guess what the image quality will be with these different models. (This is why I mentioned the positive reviews the Apex model has received. It would seem like many of the purchasers were roughly looking for something similar to your quest... and they seem to be quite satisfied).

Gary W Brown
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Post by Gary W Brown »

I'm glad Charles is in on this discussion. He types a lot faster than I do and is saying exactly what I would were I not so digitally (fingers) challenged.

The more expensive microscopes you mentioned are not much better. They still have the same focusing design and lots of plastic. The mechanical stage (slide holder) is prone to problems and as I said earlier they are not much for precision.

I wonder where you are geographically, what your experience with microscopes is, and why you are concentrating on the particular microscope you are asking about.

If this is your first microscope and you have no idea of what you will be able to see it may be a good place to start. It's not so expensive as to be a huge regret if it does not prove to be all that you want. You'll certainly see more with one of these scopes than you will with no scope.

Gary
A pixel is worth a thousand words but it takes a thousand words to explain a pixel.

microbio
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:21 am

Post by microbio »

@Gary W Brown
I only had experience with microscopes in school but I don't know anything about them. What kind of things can I see with 600x magnification?

And I am concentrating on microscopes from Amazon because they offer free shipping, otherwise I think I would have to pay like 50 euros. But is there any european microscopy shop that can offer competitive prices?

For example, if I buy the cheapest microscope from Bresser (Bresser Microscope - 5116200 - Biolux NV 20x-1280x) is it any better than the others Bressers? Will they allow me to see the same things?

PS: I found a microscope brand called "Celestron" on Amazon. Is it any better?

parcival
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Location: belgium

Post by parcival »

Charles Krebs wrote:
They are more expensive but they might be better.
They might, but then again they might not :smt102

Gary got on his soap box ( :wink: ) and explained what is quite true... better quality for the "buck" can usually be had with older used equipment. I certainly don't disagree. This does involve some knowledge about used scopes and frequently some DIY skills as far as cleaning and possibly even some minor (hopefully) repair work.

"Drop down" co-axial x-y stage controls (like on the Apex and one or two others that you mentioned) will be far more comfortable to use instead of smaller separate controls at the stage level (as in the Bresser Microscope - 5110000 - Erudit).
I talked to a guy that went into a school that wanted to replaces their old leitz scopes with new bressers ones. He sold them the new scopes and took away the old ones. He was shaking his head as he told the story and he was adamant that the old leitz scopes would still be in good working condition when the plastic bresser focusing mechanism would have worn out. A common problem with it, had to do with something about a metal(?) pin scraping against a plastic cog in the fine focus mechanism. But heh the school would turn to him for service and repairs.

Dirk
leitz ortholux (1954 vintage), leitz HM lux

yvan_be
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Location: Belgium

Post by yvan_be »

IMHO there are far better options for an elementary microscope on the second hand market.

For € 200, you can easily buy a *real* microscope (meaning: glass, steel, bronze, not the semi-toys, these days sold as "microscopes"!).

A used Leitz SM, a Zeiss standard Junior, even a Zeiss Standard 14 or 16, a Reichert Neopan, Fluorpan, all in monocular version.

For € 100 you can easily find a classic microscope (the one with a straigt tube and the horse shoe shaped foot), such as an Olympus GB, the nice Reichert art deco style microscope, a Leitz L, a Baker series IV, a Beck 47 and so on.

It's also very interesting to have a look at microscopes from lesser known brands. These are *real* microscopes, sometimes sold cheap, as few people know these. Examples are:

Will Wetzlar, ROW (Germany)
Kyowa, Yashima (Japan)
Meopta (Czech Republic)
Nachet, LEMARDELEY, BBT Krauss, Stiassnie (France)
OIP (Belgium)
Koristka, Officina Medica (Italy)
...

Heck, I thinck I never paid more than € 200 for a "routine lab microscope" and never more than € 500 for a research grade microscope with basic optics, such as a Reichert zetopan or a Zeiss Universal...

Admitted: an old friend of mine is a retired, very fine, old style microscope technician. That helps a lot...

benjamind2014
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Post by benjamind2014 »

Kyowa...looking at one now

Will need to see it physically...and may have to replace both eyepieces and objectives if I need to replace either in the future since the eyepieces are the compensating type...but mechanics should be very good if well maintained.

Boy am I glad I read this thread. I won't be buying any scope with plastic cogs for fine focus...what a joke that would be! :evil:

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