Methylsulfonal Wunderworld

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Ernst Hippe
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Germany

Methylsulfonal Wunderworld

Post by Ernst Hippe »

Hello,
M. = Trional was mentioned already by Agatha Christie as a sleeping drug. Ist crystals serve here better against the northern November Gray:

Image

Ernst

Charles Krebs
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 pm
Location: Issaquah, WA USA
Contact:

Post by Charles Krebs »

Wonderful image!
Can you tell us a little about the lighting?

Sumguy01
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:05 pm
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

Post by Sumguy01 »

:smt038 Very nice.
Love the colors.
Thanks for sharing.
:D

RogelioMoreno
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Panama

Post by RogelioMoreno »

Beautiful image.

Rogelio

Ernst Hippe
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Germany

Post by Ernst Hippe »

Hello all,
thanks for your appreciation!

Charles:
Olympus CH-2 critical brightfield plus selfmade LED holder with possible shifting sidewards. Polarizator and retarder (Mica 1230nm) separately turnible for a wide color range. Achromat 6,3x.

Greetings Ernst

NicoVB
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Belgium

Post by NicoVB »

Wow great colors!

Would you care about a bit more explanation working with retarder filters?
It's unknown to me.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...

Ernst Hippe
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Germany

Post by Ernst Hippe »

Hello NicoVB,
additionally to my answer to Charles Krebs:
The retarder filter sits on a round glass plate between polarizer and condenser, turnible independely from the polarizer. It can be stacked of 2 to 3 layers of colorless clear plastic tape. However you must reach the order II or III of the pol-colors-scale. A still better material is a thin mica plate, which I was lucky to get. Those with such high values are not offered commercially, so one can only do try and error with tape. But I also used this method.
Polarizer and object must also be turnible separately to get the full color range.
I hope you can work with my explanation and wish you good results!

Greetings Ernst

NicoVB
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Belgium

Post by NicoVB »

Just tested this with adding layers of 3M clear scotch tape on a 700x700 slide and holding it between my lineair filter and condensor.
Changing the specimen, the results vary off course.

I don't receive the result you get (that nice black background with rainbow colors in the crystals), but more like an equal color spreading and replacing the black background with a color.
Depending by the way the lineair filter is turned 90°, another color appears.

Best results are with 1, 2 or 3 layers of tape.
I think that is logical, (adding around 1/4 wave filter each time) the results just cycle.
But the more layers added, tht more the effect diminishes and colors fade away.
Like you said, add 1,2 or 3 layers...

Resulting main colors:
1 layer: yellow/blue
2 layers: red/blue green
3 layers: Purple/yellow-green
----------------------------------------------
4 layers: Pink/green
5 layers: slight transparent Pink/green
6 layers: more transparent Pink/green

To finish i made 2 slides, one with a single layer, the other with 2 layers of tape.
Is it correct to presume these function now as a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave retarder filter?
And now i can combine them and rotate them independently the way it's pleased.
Some trippy colors appear!!

More testing is needed, but i still are puzzled how you manage to keep that black background.
Some post processing maybe? No offence if so, just wondering. Great effect.
Last edited by NicoVB on Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...

Ernst Hippe
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Germany

Post by Ernst Hippe »

No post processing, apart from a bit of more contrast sometimes. I needed some years to get the results today...
Your are now on the right way - keep on experimenting, also with all kinds of plastic foils for retarders!
Ernst

carlos.uruguay
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Post by carlos.uruguay »

Super!!

NicoVB
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Belgium

Post by NicoVB »

Danke Ernst.
It is wonderful to see all kinds of material that surround us, have functions i never would have thought... :wink:
Also understandable that you don't want to share your years of research in a hartbeat.
I'll keep experimenting.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...

Ernst Hippe
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Germany

Post by Ernst Hippe »

It is not that I don'want, but it could become a long lecture about polarization...
I recommend to look for the "Michel-Levy chart of pol. colors". Stack an exact parallel staircase of a sticking tape to compare the color sequence with Levy.

Cactusdave
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Location: Bromley, Kent, UK

Post by Cactusdave »

Ernest's advice is all good. I'd offer a few other suggestions. Producing nice polarisation colours in any suitably birefringent specimen is always going to be a matter of trial and error. It's dependent on the optical properties of the specimen and its thickness, so some, maybe even a lot of trying different combinations of retarders may be needed to get something really pleasing to you. I keep a big stock of potential retarders, CD wrappers, greetings card wrappers, small cellophane packets, the plastic 'windows' of supermarket cake boxes are all worth trying. Sellotape is good, I find stacks of two and three layers most useful. Not all Sellotape is the same, just try it. Stacking retarders often gives the most vibrant colour. I frequently use a commercial full wave red/magenta retarder with a Sellotape or other type of retarder stacked on top. This is particularly useful if you want a nice sky blue background. This guy's polystyrene retarders give particularly strong colours in my setup http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172392990381? ... EBIDX%3AIT I don't know if he would sell them without the rest of his kit. To my eye it's a bit garish for biological subjects, but might be great for crystals. Finally a thought on getting a black background. Dark ground works quite well with polarisation and a retarder and can give very striking results at low power, say up to a X10 objective. :wink:
Leitz Ortholux 1, Zeiss standard, Nikon Diaphot inverted, Canon photographic gear

NicoVB
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Belgium

Post by NicoVB »

Hey Dave, thx for the tip.

I already was on the point to buy this one, but instead i bought myself some good or better quality linear filter.
I bought 2 different sets, a linear 0/90 of 0.4mm and a lineai 45/135 of 0.8mm.
The angle is not that important to me, but maybe the thickness does make a difference.
I now use a linear pol filter from some old 3d glasses, only 0.28mm.
But they don't block all the light.
That is the main reason why i can't get a nice black background.
So I'm going to solve that first.

As retarders you can indeed buy Pro Redarder Flim of ?/4 (nm 450 - 700), ?/2 (nm560) or ?/1 (nm 560) for a decent price, depending on the size.
Glass ones are just too expensive for now.
But i like it more to explore all what's around in a normal household. Things you have but don't expect what their behavior is like until you hold them in between your polarizer set.
Much more fun to grab a packaging blister, cut out the flat part and see your wife thinking: "what the **** is he going to do with that?".
Some things work, others don't, but the trial and error is what makes this interesting.
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...

NicoVB
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:53 am
Location: Belgium

Post by NicoVB »

Ernst Hippe wrote: I recommend to look for the "Michel-Levy chart of pol. colors". Stack an exact parallel staircase of a sticking tape to compare the color sequence with Levy.
That is exactly what i wanted to describe when finding out that adding more layers after a point has no more use...
Thank you for pointing in the right direction and correct scientific name.

Image
When you make the most fantastic discovery, a lot of people want a piece of it...

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