Flash Triggering With Nikon D850 and EFCS

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu May 10, 2018 4:21 pm

Just discovered something very interesting last night while using one of my main photography set-ups

This is what I know so far:

Nikon D850
Godox X1T-N Wireless Trigger in the hotshoe
Godox TT350n Flash
Live View On
EFCS Enabled
Manual mode 1/160th

Result: flash fires

Nikon D850
Godox TT350n Flash in the hotshoe
Live View On
EFCS Enabled or OFF
Manual mode 1/160th

Result: No flash

Nikon D850
Nikon-800 or Debao SU-800, SB-800 or any flash in the hotshoe
Live View On
EFCS Enabled or OFF
Manual mode 1/160th

Result: No flash

Right now it looks like the Godox X1T-N Wireless Trigger in the hotshoe will trigger flash on the D850 with live View on and EFCS enabled. If I turn the flash off and leave the Godox X1T-N on and set the shutter to 1 second the ruler target is tack sharp so it looks like EFCS is working.

This shouldn't work and why did I never realize this before, the D850 + Godox is one of my main set-ups.

Comments, questions?

Thanks

Robert

These are what the units look like but I am using the N models and not the S versions pictured.

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:15 pm

Can you test if this also works for the Silent Shutter mode (pure electronic shutter)? That would be wonderful!

JohnyM · Post by **JohnyM** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:16 pm

Hmm, i use Godox XT1-S + 2x TT685S with A7RII, A6000 and A6300 with EFSC all the time (live view only cameras). I never used flashes on camera, i will check it out tommorow. Flash wont fire with fully electronic shutter.
Im also using old manual flash with A6000 and A6300 on microscopes, and it fires with EFSC on, but camera doesnt detect it/ But it fires and is syncing up to 1/200.
Is it unusual for cameras to work with efsc and flash?

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:25 pm

Robert,

Per my PM and email. I have set D850 to Silent LV Modes 1 and 2 with Adorama R2 RF Trigger on hot shoe. Result in no flash.

I haven't updated my D850 firmware yet, have you? If so, maybe Nikon has decided to enable the hot shoe trigger

Nah, I couldn't be that lucky

Maybe the Godox X1 trigger is sensing something on the hot shoe the R2 isn't...but they are supposed to be the same.

Best,

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:39 pm

Thanks for the replies, and for an email from Mike.

So this is what I now know.

Flash will trigger with
Nikon D850
Godox X1T-N Wireless Trigger in the hotshoe
Godox TT350n Flash
Live View On
EFCS Enabled

Flash will fire in S or Single frame, Cl or Continuous low speed, Ch or Continuous high speed, Q or Quiet shutter-release, Qc or quiet continuous, and
Self-timer.

Turning on full electronic shutter, Nikon calls this Silent Live View Photography mode, the flash will not fire.

So looks like EFCS and flash work with the Godox units but not Full Electronic shutter enabled.

Anyone notice this before?

Robert

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:44 pm

mawyatt wrote:Robert,

Per my PM and email. I have set D850 to Silent LV Modes 1 and 2 with Adorama R2 RF Trigger on hot shoe. Result in no flash.

I haven't updated my D850 firmware yet, have you? If so, maybe Nikon has decided to enable the hot shoe trigger Nah, I couldn't be that lucky

Maybe the Godox X1 trigger is sensing something on the hot shoe the R2 isn't...but they are supposed to be the same.

Best,

Hi Mike

My D850 is on older firmware:

C: 1.00
LD: 2.016
S: 5.002

Current it C:1.01

http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/e ... w/254.html

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:49 pm

mawyatt wrote:Robert,

Per my PM and email. I have set D850 to Silent LV Modes 1 and 2 with Adorama R2 RF Trigger on hot shoe. Result in no flash.

I haven't updated my D850 firmware yet, have you? If so, maybe Nikon has decided to enable the hot shoe trigger Nah, I couldn't be that lucky

Maybe the Godox X1 trigger is sensing something on the hot shoe the R2 isn't...but they are supposed to be the same.

Best,

Mike,

Would be interesting to see if the R2 is similar.

Can you try Silent LV off and EFCS enabled in CSM d6 and hit the "i" button when in live view to make sure its set there also.

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Thu May 10, 2018 6:10 pm

Update:

Nikon D850
Godox X1T-N Wireless Trigger in the hotshoe
Godox TT350n Flash
Live View On
EFCS Enabled
S,Cl, Ch, Q, Qc, and Self-timer.

Flash also works with the mirror raised before the exposure starts.

D850 CSM or custom setting menu

d5: Exposure Delay Mode

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Thu May 10, 2018 7:17 pm

RobertOToole wrote:
mawyatt wrote:Robert,

Per my PM and email. I have set D850 to Silent LV Modes 1 and 2 with Adorama R2 RF Trigger on hot shoe. Result in no flash.

I haven't updated my D850 firmware yet, have you? If so, maybe Nikon has decided to enable the hot shoe trigger Nah, I couldn't be that lucky

Maybe the Godox X1 trigger is sensing something on the hot shoe the R2 isn't...but they are supposed to be the same.

Best,

Mike,

Would be interesting to see if the R2 is similar.

Can you try Silent LV off and EFCS enabled in CSM d6 and hit the "i" button when in live view to make sure its set there also.

Best,

Robert

Robert,

With Silent LV OFF and EFCS enabled flash will fire but also hear shutter sounds. I have noticed that when R2 in ON, the D850 indicates the R2 presence with a red flash symbol on LV screen in lower right corner, thus recognizing the R2. When Silent LV is ON the red flash symbol is not present even if the R2 is ON indicating that the D850 is ignoring the R2 presence and not triggering/blocking the hot shoe.

Best,

mjkzz · Post by **mjkzz** » Thu May 10, 2018 11:51 pm

I think in TTL mode, there is a pre-flash so the camera can calculate what power level to use for actual exposure. Would this causes issue of uneven exposure during stack? As focus changes, the "scene" seen by camera will be different.

mjkzz · Post by **mjkzz** » Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am

my trick is to set YN560 in S2 mode so it will ignore the TTL pre-flash (taped up but a small opening) but triggers on the second. This is used on Canon for 2nd curtain triggering where Nikon users enjoy 2nd curtain feature all along.

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Fri May 11, 2018 5:23 am

Peter,

I always use manual flash mode for macro and have the Adorama R2 trigger set as such, also the strobes I use for macro Adorama AC 300 (Godox SK300II) don't support TTL.

Not sure how Robert has his Godox X1 RF trigger set though.

Best,

mawyatt · Post by **mawyatt** » Fri May 11, 2018 5:56 am

One D850 setup mode I have found that seems (haven't done a stack yet) to work for stacking with flash and allows EFCS use, although not without shutter/mirror sounds is using MUP.

With MUP, EFCS enabled and NOT in Live View it seems that on the 1st shutter trigger the Mirror flips Up AND 1st Front mechanical Curtain Opens, then the 2nd trigger starts the exposure with the EFCS which is concluded with the 2nd mechanical Rear Curtain. Under these conditions the hot shoe is enabled allowing flash during the exposure started by EFCS.

The drawback to this method is vibration/sound occurs twice, once at MUP with both Mirror and mechanical Front Curtain moving and at the exposure end terminated by the mechanical Rear Curtain. Since the actual exposure is started with the 2nd trigger which uses EFCS, the vibration effects shouldn't be an issue as no Front Curtain vibration is involved. Of course you do hear the mirror and curtains and are exercising the mechanicals (limited life mirror flips and curtains) but the exposure should be vibration free with proper timing.

My hope is that with this method the flash timing via hot shoe trigger will be consistent and not require the external delay means that were developed for using flash while in Silent LV mode. This should mean that a fast shutter speed can be utilized with flash (1/100~1/250), thus allowing operation in high ambient light conditions when a longer shutter required because of the uncertainty of the camera to exposure delay when in Silent LV mode would cause somewhat double exposure (ambient & flash).

Anyway, I'll probably try and give this method a try soon. Not as nice a totally electronic shutter Silent LV mode with absolutely no vibration/sound, but certainly useful...and no external delay circuit

Best,

mjkzz · Post by **mjkzz** » Fri May 11, 2018 6:18 am

mawyatt wrote:Peter,

I always use manual flash mode for macro and have the Adorama R2 trigger set as such, also the strobes I use for macro Adorama AC 300 (Godox SK300II) don't support TTL.

Not sure how Robert has his Godox X1 RF trigger set though.

Best,

I think Robert's X1-T-N (the N is for Nikon?) is a TTL trigger, so from what he described, it seems TTL mode works but not other manual ones.

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Fri May 11, 2018 6:27 am

"Since the actual exposure is started with the 2nd trigger which uses EFCS, the vibration effects shouldn't be an issue"

Mike, I know you are aware of this, but I just want to remind new readers again that even though the second-curtain vibrations are not an issue for the current photo, those vibrations can slightly move the subject, and thus ruin the next photo's alignment with the previous one....especially if the subject is a specimen in liquid.