Found some good flashes for studio macro

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

Beatsy
Posts: 2105
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:10 am
Location: Malvern, UK

Found some good flashes for studio macro

Post by Beatsy »

I usually shoot studio macro with continuous light but when traffic hits the speedbumps about 70ft from my house, it causes a tiny vibration which can affect images at high magnification (~50x). Short of getting a giant granite block (impractical given the rig's location in an upstairs bedroom) it remains a minor annoyance. I tried an inner tube base, but it was too bulky and too wobbly for my tastes. I also tried speedlights which fixed the issue completely, but I had to slow the frame rate a lot to avoid overheating, and battery life is a concern on very deep stacks. So I stuck with continuous light and avoided the problem by doing my high-mag stacking late at night when there's no traffic. Until now...

I got a couple of Godox AD200 pocket flashes for other photography work (used in softboxes for studio and outdoor portraiture). Unlike my "proper" mains-powered studio lights, they have a very short flash duration at lower powers, just like speedlights. Ideal for freezing out shake. They are very impressive for the money and I decided to try them for flash on the rig. They work really well (and one is usually enough, as in attached pic). Easy to mount (on a magic arm clamped to a Noga stand in my case), battery life is enormous (thousands of shots on a charge), a useful modelling light is built in (offset to one side inside the head though, so test shots still needed to check lighting is correct), they recycle quickly (I fire them every two seconds), and they have oomph to spare when you're using a lot of diffusion. Even better, they have radio triggering built in, so a small Godox X1-t radio trigger in the camera hot-shoe is used to set power and fire them. No cables (unless you want to use them), and individual/group flash power adjustment when needed.

Worth noting these flashes are very good for certain kinds of field macro too; where it's practical to use off camera flash. The extra bit of power compared to normal speedlights is very handy.

What's not to like? OK, I bought them for other purposes anyway, so the cost was pretty much immaterial. But when you consider that two AD200s and an X1t trigger (for Sony, Canon or Nikon) cost about the same as one decent brand-name speedlight, they're a good, cost-effective option IMO. Heartily recommended!

Specs here http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Witstr ... AD200.html

Image

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Beatsy,

Agree about the use of strobes instead of the usual speed lights. Batteries, output power, recycle time, overheating all favor the strobes. These AD200s look ideal for macro work, especially at high magnification. Adorama is the source rebranded Godox here in US, with proper warranty.

For the past couple years I've been using the Adorama (Godox) AD600 with a snoot for very high magnification work for the same reasons. Also the speed of the output optical burst is very short, on the order of 100us at low power levels. The AD600 is battery and AC powered (optional AC power supply), so very handy just about anywhere.

Have a Adorama Flashpoint 600 (Godox GT600) which is even faster at ~30us for optical bursts that I use for other experiments, as I do with the AD600. Recently I've been using the Adorama (Godox) SK300II low cost strobes for my vertical and horizontal setups for low magnification work, these have a very uniform output specification of 2%. I was having uniformity and timing synch issues with my other strobes I used in the low magnification setup, the SK300II seem to have eliminated these problems. I ran a quick test with a L-308DC light meter the other day to check their uniformity. After a couple initial pulses at a new output setting these strobes settle in with very uniform outputs. I've run a few long stacking sessions and have not experienced any output variation or synch issues like the other strobes have.

One of really nice things about this Godox (Adorama) family is the RF trigger and controller is standard across the entire line, as is the Bowens mount on the larger strobes.

These Godox AD200s look ideal because of the mentioned features and their small size. Keep us posted on how they work out over time.

Best,

Mike

Lou Jost
Posts: 5942
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Post by Lou Jost »

Sounds interesting, though one could buy three Yongnuos for the price of one of these, and with external battery pack the Yongnous have similar recycling times. How does the flash duration at low power compare with the Yongnuo's?

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Lou,

I found the Yongunos speed lights very good but I had some variability in output which showed up in my stacks. These small variations probably not as noticeable with other subjects than my chip subjects. May have had some RF trigger problems that I didn't diagnose until much later, and had some overheating issues, but for the $ they were hard to beat!! The external battery pack really did improve the cycle time and allowed long stacking sessions without fear of running out of battery capacity.

I did lots of research many years ago and found that the speedlights don't provide the really fast outputs except at lower power levels, at full power they are about 5 milliseconds long, as long or longer than the older strobes. They also don't have near the power output of these newer strobes, which can be 10X the output. The newer strobes have the IGBT ionizing current gating to control the optical power, same as the speed light...except at a much higher output power.

So in a way these new strobes, like what Beatsy is using, and the AD600, are just massive speed lights, with all the capability and utility of a speedlight, but with higher power output, and somewhat larger in size/weight.

Best,

Mike

Lou Jost
Posts: 5942
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Post by Lou Jost »

Thanks Mike, they sound very interesting indeed.

By the way my favorite continuous light source for larger objects (<2x) is a Godox LED array with external power jack. Decent color balance.

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Lou,

A few years ago the Yonguno were the best value around, but not sure why they didn't get into the strobe areas. They do have a studio strobe but it's way more expensive than others. The Yonguno RF trigger system wasn't very friendly, and had all kinds of different variations. I spent the time to learn it and how to use it but it's wasn't very intuitive.

Now Godox seems to have a standard RF system across their speed lights and strobes, which is very nice. I can't say much about the Adorama (Godox) speed lights and I haven't used them for macro, just the usual intended use and they work fine there. Another brand has picked up on this, Orlit at Adorama has a similar speed light/strobe product portfolio. I can't say much about this either since I haven't used any Orlit products.

I made the decision to move to Adorama for lighting & stands a couple years ago, and have been happy. Now in the US you can get some Godox products both from Adorama (not the rebranded for Adorama Flash products) and B&H, so lots of available sources for folks here in US.

Best,

Mike

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

Lou Jost wrote:Sounds interesting, though one could buy three Yongnuos for the price of one of these, and with external battery pack the Yongnous have similar recycling times. How does the flash duration at low power compare with the Yongnuo's?
The difference is that [at least in the US], the Adorama branded Godoxes have a warranty that means something. If a Yongnuo dies the day you get it, YOU pay to ship it to CHINA, or you just throw it away and buy another... which may itself die the same day. At least to me, that's completely unacceptable.

If these have an Adorama counterpart, they could be very attractive to me.

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Good point.

I did have a YN685 overheat and partially melt the clear plastic face. I was running a full output fast sequence and the overheat sensor did not engage, thus the overheated melt of the face.

I had just purchased these (2) from B&H, and they did their usual superb CS and shipped me another replacement. Think was a defective product return rather than a warranty issue though.

That was the only problem I had with Yonguno products. I know there was an issue reported with the YN560, which seemed widespread. Their products seemed well made as I took a couple speed lights apart to evaluate the design & construction (like I did with the SK300II).

The Adorama (Godox) AD200 is the Flashpoint eVOLV 200 here:

https://www.adorama.com/fplfev200z.html

Best,

Mike

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

mawyatt wrote:That was the only problem I had with Yonguno products. I know there was an issue reported with the YN560, which seemed widespread. Their products seemed well made as I took a couple speed lights apart to evaluate the design & construction (like I did with the SK300II).
Somebody recommended YN560s [set on low power] to me for macro. When I started seeing numerous reports of "stuck on full power" failures, I did a LOT of research and found it that wasn't a QC problem, but a design flaw involving poor quality or inappropriate IGBT chips. It's a known, repeatable problem, a solution with which I was indirectly involved. Replacing the IGBT with a better one fixes the problem, but the initial method was problematic (and potentially dangerous). I started corresponding with a Chinese kid on YouTube who came up with an excellent solution, using some of my input:

https://youtu.be/VOXIHqty7Pc

I wouldn't buy a YN560II or IV now, but this is a viable solution if you already have one stuck in full power.
mawyatt wrote:The Adorama (Godox) AD200 is the Flashpoint eVOLV 200 here:

https://www.adorama.com/fplfev200z.html
Wonderful.

I don't have the money right now, having just gotten back to work, but that looks like a great option, along with an optical breadboard on which to mount everything. I've had nothing but good luck with Adorama.

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Deanimator,

This is generally not a good idea for the high voltage (potentially lethal at ~350VDC) you mention, as well as the EMI produced by the long wires. The current pulse during tube ionization can reach over 20amps (100 amps in strobes) peak and the extra wire length creates a higher inductance and bigger effective antenna to radiate more energy. If you must do this then be sure to twist the collector and emitter wires together (not the base/gate though) to create a somewhat lower inductive path (negative mutual inductance).

You might find that with this mod things that work off of RF have issues because of the higher EMI caused by the extended wiring.

If you repair the YN560 then just solder the replacement IGBT in the proper place.

Best,

Mike

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

mawyatt wrote:If you repair the YN560 then just solder the replacement IGBT in the proper place.

Best,

Mike
I think the safest course of action is simply to not to buy any YN560s. But it is a remedy if you unknowingly fell into that trap.

enricosavazzi
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:41 pm
Location: Västerås, Sweden
Contact:

Post by enricosavazzi »

The Godox AD200 is indeed an interesting flash intermediate between speedlights and studio strobes. If anyone is interested, my review is here:

http://savazzi.net/photography/godox_ad200.html
--ES

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Here's a simple, based upon calculations and assumptions, that needs verification by measurement, but provides a basis for comparisons between speed lights and strobes. I don't have access to an oscilloscope so can't follow up on these assumptions and comparisons just yet, maybe sometime much later.

The assumptions are that the effective optical output power is a function of only pulse width and the pulse is an ideal rectangle and varies linearly with such. Also I recall that typical speed lights had effective optical output powers around 60~80WS. These are very questionable assumptions but serve as a baseline to help evaluate from, if someone has a better baseline and such, please chime in.

If we first look to the Adorama SK300II which has a spec of 1/2000 sec at 1/16 power from a max output power of 300WS. This is the bench mark of 300/16 or 18.75WS at 1/2000 second (500us).

Then the Yonguno YN560IV which has a full power output of 1/220 and assume 60~80WS full power. Then at 18.75 WS the YN560 should have a pulse duration of 1,065us ~ 1,420us, assuming full power of 60~80WS respectively.

Beatsy's AD200 is 200WS at 1/220 sec full power, or 426us at 18.75WS.

Adorama AD600 is 600WS at 1/220 sec at full power, or 142us at 18.75WS.

The main point addressed here is that the speed lights are not necessarily faster than strobes, even at moderately reduced power levels, and certainly not near full power.

This post is meant to invoke some thinking rather than be viewed as an absolute fact.

First off the SK300II could easily be viewed as a flawed benchmark since it's output at full power of 300WS is 1/800 second, not the usual 1/220 sec the others have. It also doesn't follow a linear progression. The fact that it's speed at 1/800 second at 300WS, and 1/2000 sec at 1/16 power, and 2% output variation, built in 2.4GHZ RF trigger and power control, plus it's cost and design/construction are the very reasons I've decided on this as my baseline AC powered strobe.

The Yonguno could be the baseline, or the AD200, or AD600, or another reference. The SK300II at least had a pulse spec at 1/16 power or 18.75WS of 500us so that was a good starting point I thought.

Best,

Mike
Last edited by mawyatt on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Beatsy
Posts: 2105
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:10 am
Location: Malvern, UK

Post by Beatsy »

The spec for the AD200 rates the speedlight head as 1/220th to 1/13000th of a second (full power vs 128th power). Fortunately, it has enough grunt to give plenty of light for macro work at 1/64th power or less - usually 1/128th, so it's working at the highest speed end of the range.

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

I should have looked at my AD600 display, it shows the t0.1 (10%) pulse width in the display (nice feature!). So here's the t0.1 pulse width at different output power levels for the AD600.

1/1 600WS 1/220 or 4545us
1/2 300WS 1/740 or 1351us
1/4 150WS 1/1470 or 680us
1/8 75WS 1/2352 or 425us Most Speedlights at full out are 1/220 (4545us)
1/16 37.5 1/3448 or 290us
1/32 18.75 1/4651 or 215us This was the benchmark power level 18.75WS
1/64 9.375 1/6250 or 160us
1/128 4.6875 1/8130 or 123us
1/256 2.34375 1/10,000 or 100us

Best,

Mike
Last edited by mawyatt on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic