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My Macro System
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 239
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting..

I live at 2nd floor of an apartment.
There are 2 roads passing 5 meters away from the apartment.
I have no vibration issues so far.

I usually make stacks at nights to fully avoid vibrations.
I also think the frequency and intensity of the vibration is very important.
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Omer
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ChrisR
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7830
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Omer Smile. You got all your bits, obviously!
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1593
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I've found that really helps with external vibration is to NOT use a solid connection between the optical base and the floor.

I use a pair of Rubber Maid storage tubs under my optical bench which hosts the rail system and subject. These plastic tubs act as a low pass filter for high frequency vibrations.

Being an EE I tend to think of this as adding a higher structural impedance between the source (floor) and the load (optical rail). Adding weight to the bench (load) reduces the load impedance and also increases the vibration attenuation as does the tubs.

Around 1978 I consulted on the development of a system to cut complex contact lenses, kind of a CNC machine for contact lens. University Optics was the company and eventually acquired by B&L. We had large pillars of concrete in the ground isolated from the building foundation supporting a large massive granite optical table hosting the system. We still had vibration problems, so we added an air bag between the granite table and the pillar. This solved the external induced vibration problem. We ended up building 6 systems to handle the production. The air bag acted to increase the impedance between the pillar and granite table and thus increase the vibration attenuation.

Whatever reasoning you chose, this just works for me and is simple and cheap!!

Hope this helps,

Best,

Mike
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 239
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
Congratulations Omer Smile. You got all your bits, obviously!


Thanks Chris!

I am open for advices to improve it.
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Omer
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 239
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
One thing I've found that really helps with external vibration is to NOT use a solid connection between the optical base and the floor.

I use a pair of Rubber Maid storage tubs under my optical bench which hosts the rail system and subject. These plastic tubs act as a low pass filter for high frequency vibrations.

Being an EE I tend to think of this as adding a higher structural impedance between the source (floor) and the load (optical rail). Adding weight to the bench (load) reduces the load impedance and also increases the vibration attenuation as does the tubs.

Around 1978 I consulted on the development of a system to cut complex contact lenses, kind of a CNC machine for contact lens. University Optics was the company and eventually acquired by B&L. We had large pillars of concrete in the ground isolated from the building foundation supporting a large massive granite optical table hosting the system. We still had vibration problems, so we added an air bag between the granite table and the pillar. This solved the external induced vibration problem. We ended up building 6 systems to handle the production. The air bag acted to increase the impedance between the pillar and granite table and thus increase the vibration attenuation.

Whatever reasoning you chose, this just works for me and is simple and cheap!!

Hope this helps,

Best,

Mike


Dear Mike;

Thanks for the tip.
I actually tought to put all the system on a air bag like thing.
But I could not find any proper airbag for this.

For example;

My solid wooden table is 500X500.
If I can find an airbag like 400X400X50 it will fit superfine.
I can place the airbag between the wooden table and marble plate.

But I think it is hard to find such an air bag, what do you think?
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Omer
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ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7830
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like two of these? :
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5046-861/Air-Pillow
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 2712
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, yes, I think the principle is almost the same as the bags filled with viscous fluids. The fluids, however, have an additional damping effect through molecular "friction".
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austrokiwi1



Joined: 14 Sep 2014
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use square versions of these:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-SORBOTHANE-SORBO-2in-50mm-VIBRATION-ISOLATION-FEET-PODS-70D-NEW-TURNTABLE-/370987953166?hash=item56609aec0e:g:bFEAAOSwPYZU6rBM
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Still learning,
Cameras' Sony A7rII, OLympus OMD-EM10II
Macro lenses: Printing nikkor 105mm, Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G, Schneider Kreuznach Makro Iris 50mm , 2.8, Schnieder Kreuznach APO Componon HM 40mm F2.8 , Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro ( used with mirex tilt shift adapter), Olympus 135mm 4.5 bellows lens, Oly 80mm bellows lens, Olympus 60mm F2.8
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1593
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonepal wrote:
mawyatt wrote:
One thing I've found that really helps with external vibration is to NOT use a solid connection between the optical base and the floor.

I use a pair of Rubber Maid storage tubs under my optical bench which hosts the rail system and subject. These plastic tubs act as a low pass filter for high frequency vibrations.

Being an EE I tend to think of this as adding a higher structural impedance between the source (floor) and the load (optical rail). Adding weight to the bench (load) reduces the load impedance and also increases the vibration attenuation as does the tubs.

Around 1978 I consulted on the development of a system to cut complex contact lenses, kind of a CNC machine for contact lens. University Optics was the company and eventually acquired by B&L. We had large pillars of concrete in the ground isolated from the building foundation supporting a large massive granite optical table hosting the system. We still had vibration problems, so we added an air bag between the granite table and the pillar. This solved the external induced vibration problem. We ended up building 6 systems to handle the production. The air bag acted to increase the impedance between the pillar and granite table and thus increase the vibration attenuation.

Whatever reasoning you chose, this just works for me and is simple and cheap!!

Hope this helps,

Best,

Mike


Dear Mike;

Thanks for the tip.
I actually tought to put all the system on a air bag like thing.
But I could not find any proper airbag for this.

For example;

My solid wooden table is 500X500.
If I can find an airbag like 400X400X50 it will fit superfine.
I can place the airbag between the wooden table and marble plate.

But I think it is hard to find such an air bag, what do you think?


I would look into a bean bag chair as an alternative to the air bag. I was going this route if the Rubber Maid tubs didn't work.

Best,

Mike
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1593
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Mike, yes, I think the principle is almost the same as the bags filled with viscous fluids. The fluids, however, have an additional damping effect through molecular "friction".


Agree with the friction. The bean bag idea should do something similar at a larger scale I would think. The tubs worked for me (they absorb vibration energy by expansion and contraction and thus dissipate some as frictional heat. They also act as a base to mount the optical bench on, if I wanted the bench to be higher I could stack tubs (they are designed for such).

Having the bench about 20" off the floor allows more access and eases the lighting from above. I am using a small light tent sitting over the subject and positioning fixture with the lens front poking thru a slit in the tent side. With this setup I can position my multiple strobes around and over the tent for better illumination uniformity. This seems to work well for my situation.

Anyway, hope this helps others with vibration issues. As you well know they can be a pain to reduce or eliminate, we all have been thru that!!!


BTW vibration is the main reason I use strobes rather than continuous lighting, and heat also.

Best,

Mike


Last edited by mawyatt on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 2712
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Austrokiwi, thanks for the Sorbothane links. I'll try them. Also will try the tupperware containers...
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 19245
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I have also heard of people setting their table legs on dry sand in buckets. Seems like that might work pretty well, except for maybe having to periodically reset the legs if they gradually work down into the sand.

But I have no personal experience with any of the more extreme approaches. My work area is pretty quiet and Sorbothane pads are sufficient.

--Rik
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 2712
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine it would be very hard to maintain a level platform if it were set in sand. Not a problem for solid subjects but a problem for things in shallow dishes of alcohol.
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 239
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
Something like two of these? :
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5046-861/Air-Pillow


Dear Chris good find.

But I am not sure about that can hold the marble plate and all the equipments on it?

No information about max load or something.
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 239
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

austrokiwi1 wrote:
I use square versions of these:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-SORBOTHANE-SORBO-2in-50mm-VIBRATION-ISOLATION-FEET-PODS-70D-NEW-TURNTABLE-/370987953166?hash=item56609aec0e:g:bFEAAOSwPYZU6rBM


Hi.

I already made some investigations about sorbothane long time ago.
But it is too hard for me to buy original sorbothane.
The sellers on ebay are not trustable and I heard lots of things about fake sorbothane Smile

Good sellers do not ship to Turkey as well.

So I use rubber, it does the job well.
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Omer
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