Advice for watch photography

macroring1 · Post by **macroring1** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:54 pm

Hello everybody, I just found this forum and I'm starting to find a lot of good advice.

I'm after a specific advice where I simply can not find a good solution in these past few months.

So a little bit of a background, I'm a vintage watches watch dealer. I don't have a webpage, I am selling watches only on markets and fairs.

Finally I decided to go online and have a webpage with photos where people can simply order and buy a watch

I have spent the last 6 months trying to get a good, uniform photo which will be like a good portfolio on my webpage but I can't seem to get a consistent result. One photoshoot will look awesome another not so much. I think the issue is the lighting.

I have a table where I have 5 5500K lamps, 2 on the side, 2 on the top and 1 on the right side. I think my main issue is as I don't have light on the front, I need to turn the watch onto the side to get some light on it otherwise it will simply have a glare or reflection if I keep it straight to the camera. My goal is to achive a photo like this one:

http://dvciknd2kslsk.cloudfront.net/ima ... quality=90

You can see that the details on the dial are clear and lit but also the side and behind. Me I'm able only to get the side to be well lit. For example like this:

http://i.imgur.com/nanxwBZ.jpg

So I think I would need a ring flash or LED continuous ring to get that effect. Am I right?

Or I would need some other setup?

Happy to hear advices.

Thank you in advance

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Wed May 31, 2017 4:37 pm

macroring1, welcome aboard!

To get an image like the one at cloudfront.net, you need light coming from pretty much all around the subject. It may help to imagine yourself in the position of the subject. Then you want to be in a room where the whole ceiling, and the walls, and maybe even the floor, are all glowing. If you search the internet for "light tent" images, you'll find a bunch of enclosures with translucent white sides. To use those, you shine light on the outside of the tent; light from the tent illuminates the subject. For something like a watch, where you want nearly on-axis illumination also, you can completely enclose the subject except for a small hole for the camera to shoot through.

A ring illuminator will not do what you want. It will simply produce strange ring-shaped reflections.

--Rik

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Wed May 31, 2017 5:25 pm

"Pop-up" light-tent cubes are quite cheap on ebay.
I think you'll find you need to prevent any reflections from the glass though, So think what the angle is of the glass tot he camera sensor, and make sure there's NO light hitting the glass from double that angle - or you'll photograph its reflection.

EG In the simple straight-on case, light from 45º each side wouldn't cause reflections off the glass. They'd need to be diffuse though or edges of shiny hands, bezel etc would still be strong highlights.

The first image you linked to appears to have quite a strong top light, but the reflection would be away off below.

Post by **enricosavazzi** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:18 pm

I agree with preceding posts that a light tent is necessary for the kind of picture at the first link. A few additional details to think about:

- Even with a light tent that surrounds the front of the lens, the black reflection of the front of the lens on the glass (and other parts) of the watch is going to be a problem. In the picture at the link, this has been largely (but not completely) avoided by slightly tilting the watch upwards. The reflection of the lens front is still present, but in this way it moved to the lowermost part of the watch face. In many cases, it will be impossible to completely eliminate this reflection. Shift lenses have also been used for this purpose, but their perspective rendering sometimes does not "feel right".

- Using a polarizer may help to reduce the visibility of the reflections from the glass (but not from metal parts). Probably not very effective for reflections close to perpendicular, but worth trying.

- Using a lens of long focal length helps to reduce the size of the lens reflection. It also reduces the amount of inclination of the watch face away from the normal, necessary to move the reflection to an unobtrusive position. So I would suggest using a large light tent (a 1 meter cube would by no means be excessive) and a 200 mm f/4 or 300 mm f/4 lens (don't use an f/2.8 lens, because the very large front element negates the advantage of the long focal length with respect to size of the reflection). An f/5.6 or f/6.3 lens would be even better in this respect, if you can find one (e.g. an enlarger or copy lens on extension tubes).

Light tents are usually cubes sewn at the edges, but only a milky perspex hemisphere would give a completely seamless reflection. A large perspex hemisphere is very expensive, though.

Try first the lens without a light tent to find out the lens-to-subject distance at the desired magnification, then buy a tent size that provides that distance. You may also mount on the lens front a white cardboard sheet with a hole for the lens for test pictures, to get a better idea of the size and position of the reflection, if you don't yet have a light tent.

austrokiwi1 · Post by **austrokiwi1** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:53 pm

Most of my macro interest is with coins. Some of the issues faced with coins are similar to those with watches. I note the recommendation for a light tent, and have to add that I have never had any joy with a light tent. I found the issue was that most of the light tents are just too large for coins.

macroring1 · Post by **macroring1** » Wed May 31, 2017 10:29 pm

Wow, thank you for all the replies!

I do have a light tent, albeit a small one. Around 40cmx40cm. I use canon 6d + Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro

I will try with bigger tent. My fear was that not enough light will enter and I won't be able to capture details. I use ISO 100 and F stop 22 and exposure time between 1/15 and 1/2 depending on the position and the light sources, I sometimes turn them off or reposition them.

Once again thank you very much for the helpful advice

Adam Long · Post by **Adam Long** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:18 am

Some good ideas (from a pro) for reflectors here: https://blog.mingthein.com/2012/03/07/w ... g-serious/

Deanimator · Post by **Deanimator** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:17 am

Regarding light tents, PVC pipe is your friend.

I made a tent using plans I got off of a firearms forum. As long as you don't glue the components together, it's endlessly configurable. Just adjust or replace the pipe and connectors to suit your needs.

You literally need no tools beyond a hacksaw or other hand saw. A jigsaw is nice if you have one.

The only issue I had was with diffusion material. Recently, I finally settled on packing foam sheets from OfficeMax. Tape them together to fit, then tape or staple them to slide over the pipe. I found two layers worked perfectly.

It seems like you already have a lot of light. I use three articulated arm lamps with two 300w and one 250w(?) equivalent daylight CFLs.

Since I got the diffusion material right, I've been amazed by the quality of the still life shots I've obtained.

Deanimator · Post by **Deanimator** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:20 am

macroring1 wrote:My fear was that not enough light will enter and I won't be able to capture details.

A trick I learned was to not place my lights too close to the diffuser material. That creates hot spots and doesn't allow the tent to diffuse the light.

Pull your lights back so that they illuminate the entire surface of the tent. You'll get much better results.

austrokiwi1 · Post by **austrokiwi1** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:42 am

Here is picture of the method I use to get even diffuse lighting for highly reflective coins. I modified an un-serviceable ring light mount by removing the LEDs. I attached the ring light mount to a white polypropylene kitchen cutting board. I then reflect the lights off the cutting board on to the subject (in the photo the lights are off)

Deanimator · Post by **Deanimator** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:09 am

austrokiwi1 wrote:Here is picture of the method I use to get even diffuse lighting for highly reflective coins. I modified an un-serviceable ring light mount by removing the LEDs. I attached the ring light mount to a white polypropylene kitchen cutting board. I then reflect the lights off the cutting board on to the subject (in the photo the lights are off)

That's an interesting approach, and one which I've never seen.

There's a YouTube video by a Canadian sounding guy who's a forensic photography professor at a university in Australia. He recommends placing a sheet of glass at a 45deg angle over the subject and shining a bright light (in his case, an old slide projector) through the glass. This reflects light directly down onto the subject without obscuring it.

austrokiwi1 · Post by **austrokiwi1** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:20 am

I thought I would try the technique out with my own watch( which needs to go in for a service (Stack of 50):

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:20 am

austrokiwi1 wrote:Here is picture of the method I use to get even diffuse lighting for highly reflective coins.

One important difference to note: With coins you specifically want reflections from the flat metal surfaces that are perpendicular to the line of sight. But with watches, you probably do not want reflections from the nearly flat glass surface, no matter how it is oriented.

To repeat ChrisR's comment:

I think you'll find you need to prevent any reflections from the glass though, So think what the angle is of the glass to the camera sensor, and make sure there's NO light hitting the glass from double that angle - or you'll photograph its reflection.

austrokiwi's method of bouncing light off a white reflector is a good way to get diffused illumination, though.

I have seen an extreme version of this approach used for insect photography, by placing the subject in an opaque white enclosure along with flashes positioned where the camera can't see them directly. https://www.idigbio.org/wiki/images/1/1 ... L_Lab2.pdf describes doing this inside a styrofoam cooler.

--Rik

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:23 am

austrokiwi1, I see that you and I were posting at the same time.

I notice that your image does not show significant reflections from the glass, and I am curious to know why that is.

Do you have any idea?

--Rik

austrokiwi1 · Post by **austrokiwi1** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:32 am

rjlittlefield wrote:austrokiwi1, I see that you and I were posting at the same time.

I notice that your image does not show significant reflections from the glass, and I am curious to know why that is.

Do you have any idea?

--Rik

The watch was just placed in the center of field. It had to be raised off the base board by the addition of a couple of thick books. The only other change is I replaced the honeycomb that had been absent for the left hand set of lights in the first photo

With coins you specifically want reflections from the flat metal surfaces that are perpendicular to the line of sight.

I believe that is an American approach and is used to highlight features of American coins in manner that matches the USA coin grading system. When Photographing European coins( particularly medieval and gold) I try to avoid such reflections ( I dislike them)

Edit: Here is a photo-bucket linked image ( reduced for posting to Photobuket) of a coin a photographed yesterday using the same method. The coin its self is not a great example. However its importance comes from whom it was given to( Sir Robert Muldoon (deceased)) It was presented to him when he was finance minister of New Zealand, on the occasion that New Zealand adopted Decimal Currency: