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Printing Nikkor vs Schneider Macro Varon?
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 222
Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I believe that Sony developed it for PhaseOne.
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
The Linos spec claims it resolves up to 200 lp/mm (i.e. 5 microns) at the sensor.

http://www.qioptiq-shop.com/out/Graphics/en/00119135_0.pdf

I don't see that.

The quote that I see is on the top of page 6. It says "..an enormous resolution of up to 200 lp/mm in the object plane". (Emphasis added.)

Where should I be looking for "at the sensor"?

BTW, I do see words about "perfect match with 5 µm pixel size", but that's not the same as resolving 200 lp/mm (which would be the Nyquist limit at 5 µm).

--Rik
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are right, I misread it... but they are recommending it for the Dalsa Pirana 12K line sensor with 5 micron pixels....
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 2275
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking for a 75PN for a long time, to no avail. It was designed for 1:4/4:1 transfers, so I guess this means printing Super-8 to 35mm or vice-versa, though it has an image circle of 64mm. I would be very curious to know if anyone here has such a beast, or has ever seen or used one. Here are the specs:



Like the other PNs, it might have the definitive performance near its optimum. Of course it can't beat a Plan Apo 4x 0.2 in the center, but for LF imaging it might be just the ticket, with f12.6 effective at M=3.5.
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 222
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not seen a 75PN

However, I just looked at the rayfact web site to see if they have a modern version. They only seem to have the PN95 and PN105.

But they do have some other amazing lenses

This lens is a 116mm f/2.5, designed for 3X to 5X, with an aberration adjustment ring like the macro varon

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/2-5variable.htm

This lists the PN95 and PN105 modern replacements - they mention "eco-glass", which implies that the original PN lenses used some type of glass not in production for ecological reasons? Anybody know about that?

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/index.htm

There is a 127mm f/2.4 rayfact lens which is optimized for 3.5X.

This PDF has several other lenses, including some really long and heavy telecentric lenses

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/NikonRayfactSeries_Ver4.0.pdf

Does anybody know how one would buy these lenses new? Is there a US distributor? I emailed the Japanese site and have not heard back.

Tochigi-Nikon seems to be a subsidiary of Nikon, but I can't find mention of these products on the Nikon USA web site.
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nathanm



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like this company in Oregon is the exclusive US distributor https://www.daitron.com/machine-vision-lenses
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tochigi is Nikon's original industrial lens manufacturing site. I believe all the EL-Nikkor, Macro-Nikkor, Printing-Nikkor, Repro-Nikkor, Fax-Nikkor, Com-Nikkor, UV-Nikkor, and other industrial lenses were made there. Nikon split it off as a wholly-owned subsidiary in the 90's (?? not sure about exact timing) and they started producing lenses under the "RayFact" brand. I earlier thought that the microscope objectives were also made there but I don't believe this to be the case, but I don't know where they are made.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
I have not seen a 75PN

However, I just looked at the rayfact web site to see if they have a modern version. They only seem to have the PN95 and PN105.

But they do have some other amazing lenses

This lens is a 116mm f/2.5, designed for 3X to 5X, with an aberration adjustment ring like the macro varon

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/2-5variable.htm

This lists the PN95 and PN105 modern replacements - they mention "eco-glass", which implies that the original PN lenses used some type of glass not in production for ecological reasons? Anybody know about that?

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/index.htm

There is a 127mm f/2.4 rayfact lens which is optimized for 3.5X.

This PDF has several other lenses, including some really long and heavy telecentric lenses

http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/NikonRayfactSeries_Ver4.0.pdf

Does anybody know how one would buy these lenses new? Is there a US distributor? I emailed the Japanese site and have not heard back.

Tochigi-Nikon seems to be a subsidiary of Nikon, but I can't find mention of these products on the Nikon USA web site.


Tochigi-Nikon/RayFact used to have the 75PN (or equivalent part number in the new scheme) listed on the website a few years ago, but it is no longer there. They do have a lot more lenses now than they did 5 years ago, so it looks like they have an active design staff supporting industrial lens customers.

My understanding is that the "A" version lenses already incorporated design and materials changes to remove lanthanum and other rare earth / prohibited materials from the PN series. The "A" lenses are a complete redesign vs the earlier models, with more elements and higher complexity. This must have been required to achieve the performance without the use of the exotic materials. I've owned both an "old" 95PN and an "A" 95PN, and the old one was significantly heavier. I have never owned an "old" 105PN, but based on the performance curves it seems the "A" version is actually a bit better than the original. For sure the "A" version of the 95PN is superior in my tests.
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 222
Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally got information about the Rayfact 2x-5x lens.

It is quite a beast. Because it is 116mm, at 2X it needs 248 mm from lens flange to sensor. At 5X it needs 600mm. So this is going to be a really long set up - I need to build a new camera/bellows/stage.

But, as a result it has a correspondingly huge working distance - 117 mm at 2X and 79mm at 5X. So easy lighting.

Because the image circle is so big (86 mm) I could potentially shift a camera within the image circle to stitch.

Not so easy to afford. I have been quoted $16,800.

But I have ordered one nonetheless. My gallery just opened and I am optimistic. I will post on it once it arrives and I have some experience with it.

Meanwhile the eBay rayfact and Linos lenses have yet to arrive...
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:

...
Not so easy to afford. I have been quoted $16,800.

But I have ordered one nonetheless. My gallery just opened and I am optimistic. I will post on it once it arrives and I have some experience with it.

Meanwhile the eBay rayfact and Linos lenses have yet to arrive...


That's a lot more than I expected the lens would cost. Hopefully it lives up to expectations, and I'm obviously looking forward to seeing the results you achieve with it.
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I was surprised too.... we will see if it is worth it!
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 273
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
I have been quoted $16,800.



Do you have an oil-well Very Happy

Just kidding but it is a very expensive lens, I wish it is worth it.
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Omer
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harisA



Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Posts: 496
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of exotic and expensive lenses i remembered about a rather unusual duplicate lens i acquired several years ago .It is a massive piece of glass weighing 750gr and having a 50mm diameter front element.
These were made by Melles griot for oxberry film duplicating machines (This was found inside a 3100 machine and is probably a 63mm lens).It has a 16 blades iris and a aperture range from 2.8 to 5.6. Melles griot P/N is 39940.Unfortunately there is no information about them.
A rough test using this lens reversed reveals a big image circle with a magnification about 1.5-2.5x.





This is with the apo rodagon d 75mm 1x to give you a sense of size.


Sorry if this is a bit offtopic.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 1270
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
.......
This lists the PN95 and PN105 modern replacements - they mention "eco-glass", which implies that the original PN lenses used some type of glass not in production for ecological reasons? Anybody know about that?

....


I read some time ago and I don't remember where, maybe Canon's website, that all the glass manufacturers had to move to lead and arsenic free glass to meet EU standards. Eventually everyone had to change designs that used the more specialized glass once the old supply of glass ran out.

Congrats on your new Rayfact. You know you should make an unboxing video Nathan. How many people would ever have access to even see a piece of glass like that.

Heck I would volunteer to stop by and man the camera! :-)

Robert
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 222
Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The eco-glass makes sense in that context.

Apparently the Rayfact is made to order so it will take 8 weeks. So don't hold your breath on the unboxing video.

The quite different Rayfact from eBay arrived and I will try check it out this weekend.
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