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Printing Nikkor vs Schneider Macro Varon?
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 923
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
One thing I love about this forum is that there is always so much to learn. ......And I bought a Linos inspec 105mm f/4 optimized for 3.5X....


I have looked at the Inspec. x 3.5x lens and I believe I posted a MTF for that lens on the forum awhile back. If you are interested Nathan, I can find it and post it or send it to you. The MTF is superb, so much so that it looks too good to be true.

I did actually own a Inspec.x 5.6 / 105 0.33x for a few days but it was not the range the seller had posted in the auction. Shot a few samples than returned it. Very nice quality lens.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
....I bought a Linos inspec 105mm f/4 optimized for 3.5X.

.....


Found the MTF post for that lens:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29363
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right that it is hard to believe the Linos 105mm f/4 3.5X MTF - it is totally flat lined....

I typically shoot with more that one magnification in a shot (the sensor is on a linear stage), so it will be interesting to see how it fares at magnifications other than 3.5X (i.e. from 2X to 5X).

Nathan
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
You are right that it is hard to believe the Linos 105mm f/4 3.5X MTF - it is totally flat lined....

I typically shoot with more that one magnification in a shot (the sensor is on a linear stage), so it will be interesting to see how it fares at magnifications other than 3.5X (i.e. from 2X to 5X).

Nathan


Please be sure to share your findings results once you get the lens. I am sure lots of people will be interested in the results.

Robert
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do.... both lenses I bought today are coming from China (from the same source) so it will likely be 2 weeks...
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
You are right that it is hard to believe the Linos 105mm f/4 3.5X MTF - it is totally flat lined....

I typically shoot with more that one magnification in a shot (the sensor is on a linear stage), so it will be interesting to see how it fares at magnifications other than 3.5X (i.e. from 2X to 5X).

Nathan


The NA of this lens is a little less than 0.1, so the resolution won't be great. I assume the motivation in buying is the wide coverage? I use Nikon M5's with APS-C, and they do well with FF, but not beyond that. I have never been able to justify getting one of these since NA 0.1 lenses are widely available for small $. Are you imaging to LF sensor?
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Printing Nikkor vs Schneider Macro Varon? Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:


Good point Ray, forgot about that.

The 150 PN is a interesting and attractive lens, but rare, over the past 5 years I have seen only one for sale!

The Rayfact VF would also be really interesting with a 0.5x - 3.0x range: http://www.tochigi-nikon.co.jp/en/products/lens/vf.htm

Robert


That one does look a lot like the 85MV and likely a direct competitor. Would be interesting to test head to head.
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nathanm



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a PhaseOne 100 mpixel sensor 53.7 x 40.4 mm, which has a 67 mm image circle.
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that the Rayfacts are made with "ecological glass" which is marketing code for the fact that the special glass used in the original PN lenses is no longer available because its manufacture is prohibited for environmental reasons. These new Rayfact versions are therefore not necessarily equivalent to those old lenses. It will be nice to see actual tests. Even if they are not the same, they might be close enough. But we shouldn't assume this.
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
nathanm wrote:
You are right that it is hard to believe the Linos 105mm f/4 3.5X MTF - it is totally flat lined....

I typically shoot with more that one magnification in a shot (the sensor is on a linear stage), so it will be interesting to see how it fares at magnifications other than 3.5X (i.e. from 2X to 5X).

Nathan


The NA of this lens is a little less than 0.1, so the resolution won't be great. I assume the motivation in buying is the wide coverage? I use Nikon M5's with APS-C, and they do well with FF, but not beyond that. I have never been able to justify getting one of these since NA 0.1 lenses are widely available for small $. Are you imaging to LF sensor?


Good point Ray.

The f/4 isn't too impressive but the application is machine vision so they are designed for a big sensor, no light fall off, zero distortion, no CAs, and for a 5µm sensor type. That might fit Nathan's application perfectly.

Anyway the MTFs are phenomenal. I would like to try one!

BTW Linos rates the APO-Rodagon Ds for 7µm and they look great on my 4.88 µm D810. I emailed Linos a couple of years ago and they recommended the APO-Rodagon HR for the D810, that one is rated down to 5µm.

Robert
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Linos spec claims it resolves up to 200 lp/mm (i.e. 5 microns) at the sensor.

http://www.qioptiq-shop.com/out/Graphics/en/00119135_0.pdf

With an NA of 0.10, it is slightly worse than the Mitutoyo 5X which has NA of 0.14. But I don't have a Mitutoyo option at 3.5X.

The Mitutoyo 2X which does not work for me because of small image circle has NA of 0.055 so much worse.

There are some excellent macro lenses I could use at this magnification that are faster (Canon 35mm f/2.8 and Leitz Photar 25mm f/2.5). I will compare them to the Linos and see what works best...
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nathanm



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, I should add that I am always open to suggestions!
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ray_parkhurst



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't know how the lens could resolve 200lp/mm at f18. The simple resolution formula I have written down is:

resolution = 1/(1.22*lambda*Feff). For 550nm, f18, this gives a resolution of 83lp/mm.

Perhaps the assumptions of the formula are incorrect?
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
The Linos spec claims it resolves up to 200 lp/mm (i.e. 5 microns) at the sensor.

http://www.qioptiq-shop.com/out/Graphics/en/00119135_0.pdf

With an NA of 0.10, it is slightly worse than the Mitutoyo 5X which has NA of 0.14. But I don't have a Mitutoyo option at 3.5X.

The Mitutoyo 2X which does not work for me because of small image circle has NA of 0.055 so much worse.

There are some excellent macro lenses I could use at this magnification that are faster (Canon 35mm f/2.8 and Leitz Photar 25mm f/2.5). I will compare them to the Linos and see what works best...


Robert,

The Mitty 5X with Raynox 250 gives 3.125X and has pretty good performance, I think some had good results and have Zeiss or Vivitar 135mm ( I should have one today) which gives 3.375X with Mitty 5X. Not sure how well that will work at 67mm image circle though.

Best,

Mike
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathanm wrote:
I use a PhaseOne 100 mpixel sensor 53.7 x 40.4 mm, which has a 67 mm image circle.


Is that a 4.63 micron sony sensor Nathan?

Robert
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