Suitable base for expansion?

[GaryB]

I'm looking to get a better base for more advanced microscopy than I can get with my old brass B&L. I've been looking at a few options and they seem to be broadly compatible with each other but I'm not sure which would be best for the most diverse options.

Zeiss standard 14-16
Lomo Biolam
Jena Laboval

I'll be limited to about $200-$250 including shipping, so whatever I get will be old, dusty and probably a fixer-upper, but I'm fine with that. What I want from it mostly is versatility. I'm favoring the Zeiss standard body because I've been in love with the design since the mid 60's when I first saw them in a microscope book I had at the time. Whatever I add to it will also likely be as cheap as possible while still being decent quality like old lomo objectives. Is there any general consensus on what would be classed as 'very versatile' in the cheaper end of the used range?

[enricosavazzi]

Zeiss standard 14-16
Lomo Biolam
Jena Laboval

I went the Zeiss way (albeit with the Universal/Photomicroscope), partly because the bases were not that expensive compared with others. I am not sure it was a good decision, because Zeiss optics are expensive and good ones are getting scarce. More often than not, by buying online I got optics with cemented elements partly separated (a well-known Zeiss problem for optics produced over a span of several years) and may continue to separate over time, in spite of seller's assurances that the separation does not affect the viewing field.

[Pau]

I'm looking to get a better base for more advanced microscopy than I can get with my old brass B&L

I use -and love- Zeiss standards, but be aware that they are strictly designed for DIN objectives (45mm parfocal distance...) so won't work with older shorter objectives, at least not without complications). Old Lomos likely will work

$200 is easily be the price of one or two good objectives

Yes, delamination is the main complain about Zeiss DIN optics, also the fact that Plan Neofluars are scarce and expensive and Planapos pretty prone to delamination. I have a Planapo with some evident rear delamination working really well and two other objectives more delaminated that are almost useless because the lack of contrast, but the good Planapos I have are so good...

In fact I mostly use Leitz objectives and eyepieces on my Zeiss Standard

[zzffnn]

Zeiss Standard needs modification to accept short LOMOs. Otherwise there are mechanically good and versatile.

Jena Laboval is likely a DIN scope again, but I am not positive about it. Mechanical quality is not as good as Zeiss. I have quickly tried one at auction.

Jena Amplival should have good mechanical quality. But ask around to see if it can accept short 33mm LOMOs. Member Ichthyophthirius may know:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/p ... ile&u=3229

The two small LOMOs I have/had is not very good in mechanical quality. Not precise nor smooth enough for magnification above 400x.

Ichty recommended Nikon model S scope before, as it will focus with 33mm LOMOs without modifications:
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... nikon.html

Note Nikon model G, which I have, has a special condenser mount and is not versatile in terms of accepting other brands of condensers. Otherwise it is mechanically good, precise and smooth. Ask around to see if model S has a better condenser mount.

But note that some Nikon model S have broken focus gears.

Nikon S head and Labophot/Optiphot heads can be exchanged, as their mechanical and optical design is almost the same.

[Ichthyophthirius]

I'm favoring the Zeiss standard body because I've been in love with the design since the mid 60's when I first saw them in a microscope book I had at the time.

Whatever I add to it will also likely be as cheap as possible while still being decent quality like old lomo objectives.

Is there any general consensus on what would be classed as 'very versatile' in the cheaper end of the used range?

Hi Gary,

I'm not sure that you can use objectives with less than 45 mm parfocal length on a basic Zeiss stand (14, 16). The stage can't be raised that far, at least not on my microscopes. You'd have to use RMS extensions which reduce image quality if they don't have compensating optics.

Out of the three you listed the Zeiss Standards are both, the better and the more versatile choice. If you've always wanted one, go for it! Have a good look through the Zeiss literature to be sure the stand you buy is as complete as possible: http://www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/

Regards, Ichty

[Ichthyophthirius]

In fact I mostly use Leitz objectives and eyepieces on my Zeiss Standard

So do I. The Leitz optics are excellent value for money.

Gary, the medium-sized Leitz stands (Laborlux S; Dialux 20, 22 http://microscope.database.free.fr/Micr ... x%2020.pdf ) are also a very good choice. In particular, the trinocular heads are easier to get and much cheaper than the Zeiss trinocular heads.

Regards, Ichty

[zzffnn]

Gary,

Is there a specific feature that your B&L lacks? Are you looking for an additional photo tube?

The Nikon option offers trinocular head and you can use one from model S, Labophot or Optiphot.

You can also get a teaching head or teaching beam splitter http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-1-25x-Mic ... Sw4GVYP6Yp
then use a regular bino with a mono head (mono head for camera).

Dave Jackson may still have a few very reasonably priced Nikon widefield mono head available, I can contact him for you if you want.

[Eddie]

For versatility and upgrade-ability, I would go with Leitz or Zeiss.

For the Zeiss stand, I would go with the Standard 18 instead of the 14-16 because you can change the turret and you can probable get one for about the same price. In a bit higher price range, the WL is an excellent choice because you can not only change out the turret but also the stage and condenser with the quick connect/disconnect holders. Also with the WL, you can raise the stage for smaller sized objectives. These stands are all up-gradable to phase, fluoro, pol and DIC and parts are readily available. But as noted, watch for delamination in all the optical components.

[zzffnn]

American Optical Spencer series 2 or 4 are quite cheap, have good mechanical quality and can focus with LOMO objectives. Expandability is so-so. But their trinocular head does NOT offer simultaneous visual/photo output (it is all or none design) and there is no teaching attachment for photography.

[GaryB]

Thank you all for the great info. Zeiss it is then

The 'problems' I'm having with the brass scope are numerous, mainly constant lighting madness (random daily kittycat adjustments) monocular, poor stage rigidity, wet subjects on a tilted stand. No phase contrast or easy polar, non centerable condenser, difficulty taking photos as the eye tube is 26mm, not 23mm etc... I'm finding it all a bit frustrating.

It does brightfield wonderfully when set up but now I want to 'spread my wings' as it were. The reason I put down Zeiss, Jena and Lomo is because I can generally use parts from all 3. I could never afford 'good' Zeiss optics as they're just too spendy, so what the scope comes with will probably be the only real Zeiss West objectives I'll own. Whatever else, phase, maybe a pancratic, can all be had from other makers at lower cost to be added as money allows. I already have one DIN Leitz 40x and other older models of their objectives aren't too expensive.

The in built lighting and easy Köhler setup will be the biggest boon and instantly eliminate my biggest headache. Comfortable viewing, easy adjustments.. bliss! Getting the basic complete setup for two to two fifty isn't easy but as I said, a beater will do. I have plenty of tools and enjoy messing with things and making contraptions.

I guess I could always sell some of my more expensive tools... hmmm, anybody need a nice Festool router?

[GaryB]

Does anyone know where to find an online manual for the Zeiss Standard scopes? I've looked all over and for whatever reason Zeiss has shut access to them and I can't find anything useful. Even the zeiss docs index site has nothing about it.

[zzffnn]

Gary or anyone,

What parts compatibility is there between Zeiss West and LOMO, besides condenser mount and removable objective turret? I am not even sure about those two.

Jena and LOMO should have quite some compatibility. I have a small LOMO Biolam scope as field scope or parts scope, so knowing that will help me.

It is possible to use LOMO short objectives on Zeiss DIN scopes, by raising the stage and condenser 12mm, if you want to go that route.

I am using short LOMOs on my Nikon Labophot 2 (DIN scope), because I cannot afford water immersion apo objectives from any other brands. My Labophot 2's stage is held in place, by 3 metric screws (M4), onto stage holder. I placed a few hex nuts onto those screws to raise the stage 12mm. See these two photos:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... e&start=15

Photo #2 there shows you how a (Nikon) dovetail condenser adapter raise up a Leica condenser around 12mm, on my Nikon scope. You can just use the bottom of a Zeiss condenser dovetail, some Legos and super glue. But remember to center your condenser top lens very carefully, before you glue down everything.

[Ichthyophthirius]

Unfortunately, I can't find the manual for the Standard 14 in English any more.

Looking at these, you could extrapolate

www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/Zeiss-M ... inning.PDF

www.mikroskop-online.de/Mikroskop%20BDA ... roskop.pdf

[GaryB]

Thanks zz

It's funny because I was just envisioning how to put spacers under the stage and condenser to raise it further. It seems like it should be easy enough, and I certainly have the tools and supplies available, including 12mm brass and steel spacers. There's also a Tacoma screw store just up the road from me and they have all the materials and fittings I'd need. I have a lathe, delrin, Lucite, glass reinforced polycarbonate, 3/8" 1/2" and 3/4" aluminum plate as well. Modifying the Zeiss shouldn't pose any issues at all

[GaryB]

Thanks, Ichthy.

I understand enough German to figure it out and it'll be a great help. It's exactly what I was looking for