Zeiss 25mm 3.5. Need advice.

Just bought that first macro lens? Post here to get helpful feedback and answers to any questions you might have.

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paperdesk
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Zeiss 25mm 3.5. Need advice.

Post by paperdesk »

I've played around with macro using extension tubes on my Canon glass without much success. However, I see a lot of great results with Microscope lenses, and would like to try it out, but it seems a bit expensive, so I'm looking for affordable options.

I happened to come across a Zeiss 25mm 3.5.

Since I'm a total newbie, I have no idea is this is worth spending about $100 on or not.

I hope I'm allowed to post links here of the lens of interest:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Camera- ... SwLnBX6Xec

Any thoughts or advice for me?

Thank you very much,

Ted

paperdesk
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Post by paperdesk »

It looks like this guy has good success with it!

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/dracul ... 065153632/

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Ted, welcome aboard!

Links are permitted, as long as they conform to general requirements of relevant, not advertising, etc.

If you can get that lens for $100, it would be worth the purchase. However, if buyers decide that it really is a Luminar 25mm f/3.5 (as seems likely from http://www.savazzi.net/photography/luminarversions.htm, "Version 1"), then the price may rise to far above that.

Luminars have excellent reputations, but my 16mm f/2.5 is easily outperformed by some inexpensive 10X microscope objectives.

So let's back up a bit.

What magnifications do you want to run at, what model camera do you plan to use, and what other lenses do you have in your kit?

--Rik

paperdesk
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Post by paperdesk »

Thank you so much for the warm welcome!

I am an experienced photographer, but never was able to get into Macro. I have a Canon 60D with a Canon 24-105, 70-200 2.8is, and 85 1.8.

I have used inexpensive manual extension tubes with some of the above lenses but didn't get very good results. I managed to get one or two decent stacks, and thought of reversing a 28mm prime, but never got around to purchasing said prime.

I have a Swift Miscroscope with 10x, 40x, and 100x objectives, but I got lost trying to figure out how if it was worth trying to adapt one of them camera or how to go about it.

When I saw the Zeiss listed at a pretty low price I figured it might be worth checking out!

I expect that as I navigate around this site I will be able to learn a lot.

Ted

paperdesk
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Post by paperdesk »

I realize that the 10x objectives can be inexpensive, but are the adapters affordable too?

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Yes, it's a Luminar from old series. I have one of these and it's a good macro lens for use on bellows, but resolution is limited by its small aperture. They can cover medium format film but aren't so good for today smaller and high pixel density sensors.
These were taken with a similar lens, a Luminar 40 from the same vintage:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=9262
Pau

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Post by rjlittlefield »

Given a Canon 60D (APS-C sensor size), plus a Canon 70-200 2.8 IS, with a limited budget for higher magnification, the situation suggests sticking Nikon CFI BE 4X and/or 10X objectives on the front of the 70-200. I believe that lens is internal focus, in which case you can do a respectable amount of focus stacking with no additional parts. The same objectives would probably also work pretty well in front of your 85/1.8, where they would give lower magnification (1.7X and 4.25X), with perhaps some softening and darkening in the corners.

For general discussion, see the FAQ: How can I hook a microscope objective to my camera? You would want the "infinity objective on telephoto" configuration, which starts about half way through the first post.

For illustrations of the sorts of things you can shoot with the Nikon CFI BE objectives, see http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16348 and http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 336#101336 (which continues on to the next page, starting at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 0&start=15).

Last I checked (Sept 2015), list price on the Nikon CFI BE 10X objective was $87 at http://seoenterprises.com . That lens does not show up on their website, but the price on other objectives has held constant so it should be close. The CFI BE 4X is a bit less expensive, around $65.

To use these objectives on your 70-200 and 85, the adapters consist of a flat disk that is essentially a reducing ring. Commonly we use a specialized objective-to-52mm adapter, combined with a commodity step ring that goes 52mm-to-lens. You can also get single piece adapters that go direct from objective thread to lens thread, but those tend to be more expensive. Using the first approach, the Nikon CFI BE objectives would require something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/RMS-8-microscop ... 0750438193 (others are available, search for "rms m52 objective adapter") plus a 77mm to 52mm step down ring such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/RISE-UK-77-52MM ... 2134311203. To work with the 85 you would also need a 58mm to 52mm step down ring such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/58-52MM-RISE-UK ... 2107507751. The whole set would cost around $25.

Standard caution is that different objectives have different threads. The Nikon CFI BE objectives use RMS thread (0.8" diameter, 36 tpi). Other commonly used objectives have either 25mm or 26mm threads. Of course you need adapters to match.

Note that DOF with microscope objectives is razor thin: about 0.05 mm for typical 4X and 0.01 mm for typical 10X. This is why I mentioned focus stacking. Add $89 to your budget for Zerene Stacker Personal Edition. (Standard disclaimer: I wrote that one so I'm biased.)

--Rik

paperdesk
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Post by paperdesk »

Thank you so much for laying it out for me! I'm checking out all our links and learning as I go. I will post back once I have a better handle on things.

MarkSturtevant
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Post by MarkSturtevant »

The smaller lenses you mentioned should work with extension tubes, so I do not know why you did not get good results. But I used different lenses on extension tubes.

Of course you should go in whatever direction interests you most, and then try to get equipment that helps you get good results in pursuit of those interests. To me, a microscope objective means you will be setting up staged shots indoors, and you will be working at rather high mag within a very shallow depth of field. Many who go that route learn the craft of stacking and they get absolutely fabulous results in the end. But I expect it takes a lot of work, and good results may take a while. You can certainly do that, but I hope that is what you want!

If you want to go outdoors and take pictures of large, medium, and small subjects, and sometimes more active subjects in more natural settings, then a lens on extension tubes is a very good and inexpensive route to test the waters. But for that the main thing to get, in my opinion, is a small prime lens on the extension tubes. A 50mm prime is pretty optimal, and it can be sharper than most zoom lenses. The lens can be reversed, for a boost in mag, but is easier to keep the lens in the forward position during the early stages of the learning curve since that keeps the lens electrically connected to the camera so you always have aperture control. Hard to see the little buggers in a narrow aperture on a cloudy day!

Another slightly different approach for the outdoorsy type is to attach a Raynox lens to, say, your zoom lenses. The bigger zooms, I have found, are really good with that, and they let you get good pictures of insects that are small (1") to large. The Raynox of course will work in conjunction with your extension tubes.
Mark Sturtevant
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paperdesk
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Post by paperdesk »

I've read each response, and followed links, as well as read several more articles and many posts. I've learned a lot, but still have questions.

So, here's the thing. The main subject I want to shoot is coral polyps in my saltwater reef aquarium. I would enjoy insect shots as well, but for right now what I'd really like to dial in is the ability to shoot close ups of my reef tank. Naturally I can only get so close, what kind of equipment might work best either in combination with my lens setup, or on its own?

Ted

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Post by MarkSturtevant »

A macro lens provides a decent working distance (about 5-6") at its closest focus that provides a 1:1 magnification, which is the peak magnification of most macro lenses. Lower magnification is easy with these, as you simply have to step back farther away and adjust focus. I think you wanted to get to higher mag than that, or at least be able to, and that requires other systems like the microscope objective idea. Since you are with Canon, another choice that immediately comes to mind is their mpe-65mm bohemoth. With awesome power, it starts at 1:1 and extends to a peak mag at 6:1. But with great magnification comes shorter working distances (that sounds like a statement that would look good on a T-shirt).

Continuing with the regular macro lenes, They will range from expensive ($800 or more, easily) to much less expensive (~$200) for off-brand and used and discontinued versions. Those can still be good but you have to do your research. The mpe-65mm? You get what you pay for.
Last edited by MarkSturtevant on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Sturtevant
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ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

It all depends on the subject size, therefore magnification, and how close/far you can be from it.
You may find that a Close-up such as a Raynox DCR 250, working distance over 100mm, field of view on your long zoom about 7mm, would be a good start.
Chris R

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