Vintage Zeiss Primer?

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KurtM
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Vintage Zeiss Primer?

Post by KurtM »

I'm on the hunt for a DIC scope, and want to get a handle on the older Zeiss stands. I understand there are several models such as the GFL, WL, Universal, and so on. I wonder what all models there are, and what the relative strengths and weaknesses of them might be? Thank you!
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Basically there are two DIC systems for 160 Zeiss upright microscopes:
- The older one with a single arrow marked condenser with three condenser prisms and a common DIC objective prism. It's pretty limited about the compatible objectives, at least in the official list. This the one I use but in a highly unorthodox manner.
The common prism slider is different for small stands Standard and WL (slider III) and for large stands Universal and Photomicroscopes(slider II)

- The newer one with double arrow marked condenser with two condenser prisms and one dedicated prism for each objective that fits in a holder between objective and nosepiece. It is more flexible (and usually expensive) because the variety of prisms and compatible objectives.

I both cases for use with small stands you need an intermediate pol piece to hold the DIC objective slider or analizer between the microscope arm head and binocular or trinocular head.

About the stands, avoid smaller GFL, KF and Junior and Standard with built in halogen light, each one has its own limitations. Go for a Standard with separate lamp house, WL or for a large stand.

Info about the second system is easily downloadable but for the first one it's very scarce. If you PM me your email I can sent you some pages

But not already having Zeiss stuff (I guess), maybe you could also look for Olympus and Nikon finite systems an maybe take a look at the original PZO DIC widely compatible equipment.
Pau

KurtM
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Post by KurtM »

Thanks, Pau. I'm looking at finite OLY and Nikon too, also had it suggested to me that I make a friend in Poland and think PZO and LOMO. So I'm looking at OLY BH-2 and Nikon Optiphot systems, but still clueless on PZO and LOMO.

At the moment I have an interesting line on some 160 Zeiss, so am trying to gather some knowledge quick as possible.
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

Eddie
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Post by Eddie »

As Pau said, there are two DIC systems for 160mm TL system but they can go on any 160mm TL stand from smaller standards to larger Universal/Photomicroscope. You just need the proper DIC components.

You will need at a minimum:
-Analyzer above the objective turret
-DIC prisms above the objective
-DIC condenser with DIC prisms for various power objectives
-Polarizer

The older DIC system has a single beam slide which combination analyzer and DIC prism and is used with the DIC condenser as shown below on the left. The single beam slide with II is for use on the large stands like the Universal and Photomicroscopes. The single beam slide with III is for use on the smaller Standards like the WL and 14-18s. There are two basic types of condensers for this. One has three DIC prisms, I, II and III with two Phase positions Ph2 and Ph3 and a brightfield position. The second type has four DIC prisms, I, II, III and IIII with two phase positions Ph2 and Ph3 with no brightfield positions.

The newer DIC shown on the right below consists of individual DIC prism slides which slide into holders just above the objectives. The usual prisms are for Plan 6.3X, Plan 16X, Plan 40X, PlanApo 63X and Plan 100X although they say Neofluars can be substituded for the Plans. The DIC condenser has two DIC prism, I and II with a space for a third DIC prism which is usually empty. It also has two phase positions Ph2 and Ph3 and a brightfield position. This condenser can be configured for either the large research stands or the smaller Standard stands by rotating the two prisms in the DIC condenser.
Image
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Eddie
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Post by Eddie »

Here you can see the two separate systems, the old style on the Black WL on the Left and the new style on the White WL on the right.
Image

zzffnn
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Post by zzffnn »

Is it true that PZO DIC system can be used with varieties of non-DIC specific finite objectives, as long as NA is a match and it not a phase objective? That would save a lot of money on objectives, if that is the case.

Kurt, sorry for the confusion. I am not sure if LOMO objectives can be compatible with PZO DIC (depending on answer to my above question). I mentioned LOMO to you, because I have those and since PZO DIC is compatible with a Nikon finite oil objective (Jacek used one and made stunning DIC photos), I am guessing LOMO may work too, if NA is a match. I adapted my Nikon Labophot 2 for LOMO water immersion objectives, because LOMO was the one of the few affordable water immersion systems.

It may take some DIY adaptation to fit PZO DIC onto Nikon Optiphot/Labophot, Olympus BH systems or Zeiss. Best is to use the original PZO scope, since it is not that expensive.
Selling my Canon FD 200mm F/2.8 lens

KurtM
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Post by KurtM »

Actually, the intent of this thread was to discuss the basic stand models, not the DIC gear. Not that I'm complaining, I want to learn about ALL this stuff, so all input is greatly appreciate, believe me!

How many different Zeiss 160 upright microscope models are there? I'm aware of the GFL, WL, Standard, Universal ... and now "14-18's"...? What are the relative strengths and weaknesses of each, with DIC ultimately in mind of course? Pau gives hints above: "...avoid smaller GFL, KF and Junior and Standard with built in halogen light, each one has its own limitations. Go for a Standard with separate lamp house, WL or for a large stand."

How do you guys learn all this stuff? I've tried searching the web for some sort of Zeizz site (like the McNeely site for AO/Spencer) but have come up empty.

Thanks again, especially to Eddie - that's wonderfully helpful stuff, as usual, and I greatly appreciate your going to the trouble!
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

Eddie
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Post by Eddie »

There are many models in the Standard line. The only one you should probably stay away from for use of DIC is on a KF, which is an enrty based microscope and has a round base and attached condenser. Otherwise you can use any of the Zeiss Standard line. The 14 has a inbase transformer and light which might not be enough lighting for DIC but the guts can be taken out and proper lighting can be substituted. Ideally you would want the 12V 60/100W system lighting but the 6V 15W is also adaquate. Below are some basic Standard models. From the left they are: KF2, KA, 14 and 18. There are also, 15, 16, 20 etc but the main difference is what features and accessories are on the stand. The 18 or WL is probably the ideal stand because you can interchange the objective turret but, interchanging the objective turret is not a requirement for DIC.

Image

KurtM
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Post by KurtM »

Thanks again Eddie, it's a heck of a service you do for us! I'm thinking removable turret and separate lamphouse (thinking LED conversion) are good things to shoot for. So what's the story on the WL and Universal?
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

Eddie
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Post by Eddie »

The two WL (Black and White) you can see in the second picture above. They are considered the small research scope since it has the same focus block as the large research stands the Universal/Photomicroscopes and they have the quick release/quick mount stage and condenser which is interchangeable with the large research stand. Below is the black WL alongside a couple of Photomicroscopes and a Universal. The large research scopes are quite large and take up a lot of room.
Image

KurtM
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Post by KurtM »

The WL is like the high end of the Standard line, then? And the "Photomicroscope" one of the Universal line? EDIT: Never mind, I just reread your first post, I get it now. Thanks again! :smt101
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

Image

Or, you could hold out for an Axiomat with DIC ????
I am not young enough to know everything.

Perl
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Post by Perl »

Hi
Was in same situation as you when i started whith
microscopes for many years ago

Started whit Zeiss , but after some time and to many delaminated
optical parts i move over to Leitz / Leica

I never regret that only that i not do so from start

Regards
Pär
****** Seeing is Believing ******

Eddie
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Post by Eddie »

Delamination in Zeiss products can be a problem but there are a lot more Zeiss DIC products available than there are with Leitz or with most any other makes. Careful screening and a wide selection makes it easier to assemble a fully working DIC system.

KurtM
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Post by KurtM »

Choronzon wrote:Image

Or, you could hold out for an Axiomat with DIC ????
Dang man look at that! It even has a slot where you can put a quarter in and make it go!! :smt035 Seriously, awesome scope! 8)

Hey, got a question: I have often heard the names Zernicke and Nomarski associated with DIC, and I think phase contrast too? Could one of you could give a brief explanation of what/who they are and/or what it means to us, or point me somewhere for same?
Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

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