Canon 6D silent mode problems, vibrations at exposure start

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AlxndrBrg
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Post by AlxndrBrg »

Thanks again for the informative discussion, and sorry for my absence have been busy lately.

Just had a look at the sensor while taking a test shot - and no, there is no curtain moving at all at the exposure start, but despite this some vibration can be felt and a faint click. So I guess its just something inherent with the 6D model, sadly making it somewhat non-optimal for stacking. Its odd how they managed to make the camera shake without any apparent mechanical movement. I suppose something has to move, wonder what...

Here's a shot of my rig, its not the sturdiest, but its bolted quite firmly to a large bookshelf that at least keeps externally produced vibrations low enough that its not an issue at the magnifications I work at.

Image

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Someone on another thread thought the sound was produced by charging or discharging capacitors.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Lou,

If that was due to capacitors (electrostrictive effect) and/or inductors (magnetostrictive) in charge pumps and/or DC to DC converters, you would think it should be very small. Hopefully someone with a Canon will trace the source of this vibration/sound down.

Fortunately the new Nikon D850 is absolutely quite with no vibration/sound from anything in the fully electronic shutter mode. Although they do block the hot shoe flash trigger in this mode :x

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

AlxndrBrg wrote:Thanks again for the informative discussion, and sorry for my absence have been busy lately.

Just had a look at the sensor while taking a test shot - and no, there is no curtain moving at all at the exposure start, but despite this some vibration can be felt and a faint click. So I guess its just something inherent with the 6D model, sadly making it somewhat non-optimal for stacking. Its odd how they managed to make the camera shake without any apparent mechanical movement. I suppose something has to move, wonder what...

Here's a shot of my rig, its not the sturdiest, but its bolted quite firmly to a large bookshelf that at least keeps externally produced vibrations low enough that its not an issue at the magnifications I work at.

Image
Clever setup :D

Like the use of the micropositioners at right angles for the subject. Were these adapted?

Best,
Last edited by mawyatt on Thu May 10, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Pau
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Post by Pau »

AlxndrBrg wrote:... So I guess its just something inherent with the 6D model, sadly making it somewhat non-optimal for stacking. Its odd how they managed to make the camera shake without any apparent mechanical movement.
With your setup and 10X magnification I find weird that the faint vibration of 6D at the exposure beginning in EFSC would cause blur. I've thoroughly tested it in less solid setups (like firmly connected to the microscope trinocular port) and as I formerly said I wasn't able to detect any blur, here one of my tests: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 301#134301
Pau

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Pau wrote:With your setup and 10X magnification I find weird that the faint vibration of 6D at the exposure beginning in EFSC would cause blur.
It seems weird to me too.

Also weird was the initial report that "After changing the diffuser and subject (and maybe some settings on the camera, I sadly cant recall), the image at 1/15th of a second suddenly got sharp 2 minutes later" (emphasis added).

My current suspicion is that the blur happened when the camera was not in EFSC mode, sharp images when it was in EFSC mode, and the remaining vibration and noise even in EFSC mode has led to confusion between the two cases.

If Alex has time and interest in continuing to pursue the issue, I would be interested to hear the results.
Lou Jost wrote:Someone on another thread thought the sound was produced by charging or discharging capacitors.
I believe that explanation traces to http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 455#145455 . Lots of opportunity for disconnect between the sound being explained by the interview candidate and the vibration observed in the 6D.

--Rik

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Rik, yes, that is the thread I was remembering.

AlxndrBrg
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Post by AlxndrBrg »

rjlittlefield wrote: Also weird was the initial report that "After changing the diffuser and subject (and maybe some settings on the camera, I sadly cant recall), the image at 1/15th of a second suddenly got sharp 2 minutes later" (emphasis added).

--Rik
It was likely because the mounted specimen 2 minutes later was not as prone to vibrate as the one before. The one I tried to take pictures of was at a really awkward position, with the pin at an angle to the central imaging axis of the setup. The one tested 2 minutes later had a thicker pin and it was in parallel with the imaging axis (ie the imaginary line that goes from the centre of the sensor to the centre of the subject being photographed), it was probably this that changed the amount of blur between the pictures.

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Alex,
I think that you can't grab relevant conclusions from memories of a single observation.
My advice is to perform true tests in controlled situations changing only one variable at once (camera mode, shutter speed, subject positioning...) and writing your notes immediately after.
Pau

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

mawyatt wrote:........
I've found that flash (hot shoe trigger) is inhibited in both the D500 and D850 when in any EFCS mode. This forced me to develop a work around as I use flash most often shown here.
Mike,

This is case that I found in the past but for some reason last night on my D850 I realized that for the first time, in Live View the flash is triggering, with EFCS enabled using a Godox wireless controller and flash.

I am jet lagged today so maybe I am doing something strange. I will PM you later about it. If its true I will create a new thread.

Robert

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Started a new thread that should be very interesting to Nikon users:


Flash Triggering With Nikon D850 and EFCS


http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... p?p=231813

AlxndrBrg
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Post by AlxndrBrg »

Pau wrote:Alex,
I think that you can't grab relevant conclusions from memories of a single observation.
My advice is to perform true tests in controlled situations changing only one variable at once (camera mode, shutter speed, subject positioning...) and writing your notes immediately after.

That's a fair point, its true I really cant make conclusions from a single recollection like that. In reality its based on lots of tinkering and trying to look back on different things - but I cant really put them down in text. It's simply the only thing that makes sense to me.

But its always good to do a proper test, so I did

I think its quite clear:

Image

These where done just minutes apart, in live view, silent mode 2, without touching any settings, and are totally unprocessed centre crops. Both at 1/20 second, using continuous lighting, in "Tv" mode (redid it in Manual mode, same thing happened). The "live" image from Live View looked the same in both cases, no shake or slow creep of the subject. It wasn't possible to show the same exact details, as the subject is at two different angles in the images.

It basically boils down to my own incompetence; when the specimen pin is put in at an angle in my setup it's inherently less stable than pins put straight down into the foam. :oops:

I tried and succeeded in making the results look virtually identical, if instead of putting the specimen pin into the foam at an angle I angled the sliding wood block to a ~45 degree angle on the Proxxon-table (the aluminium mount in the picture of my rig). You'd think I could have done that from the start maybe... :roll:

Edit: forgot to calculate the magnification, its roughly 6.5x times (using a 3,7 Lomo)
Last edited by AlxndrBrg on Fri May 11, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

AlxndrBrg
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Post by AlxndrBrg »

mawyatt wrote: Clever setup :D

Like the use of the micropositioners at right angles for the subject. Were these adapted?

Best,
Thanks, its just a cheap Microscope X/Y-stage from Ebay, mounted on a wood block. This in turn is mounted to the Proxxon table using the heads on two screws that slides into the T-grooves on the table, and then a wing nut on top to fasten them. It works quite well, although the block could have been higher, so that I didnt have to extent the stage so much to put the subject into view.

The X/Y-stage is not the best really, it has some give to it - would like to find some old, fully metal, stage from some scrapped microscope instead.

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

That looks like an excellent test. Thanks for the information/demonstration. This is the first time I can recall seeing such a comparison.

--Rik

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